Joe, with all due respect to both you and Peter: Mr. Thiel's reflections on the Antichrist are reflections shared with select by-invite only audiences that have not been exposed to public scrutiny much less divinity scholarship. The functional equivalent of holding mass within a cathedral of invited elites. As far as many of us can tell from the coverage provided by curated version as told by the New York Times and transmissions that have been shared on social media, Mr. Thiel argues that those that seek to constrain the development of AGI and Super Intelligence might be representations of the antichrist. How quaint. This told by the first investor into Facebook the company that birthed the modern era of at-scale social media which can be thought of as phase 1 experimentation with algorithmic driven manipulation of our lived experiences. And look where that got us. Rising suicide rates, polarized society, I could go on. Now let's consider Peter's relationship to Sam Altman. So we are all supposed to believe that asking for guardrails and accountability on AGI that is hurtling towards (with a distinct meaning nonzero possibility) of societal collapse or rogue / non-human control, built and led by the same people who brought us to where we are as a society on the social media business model, that no one elected, aggregating the wealth of nations under a future promise of UBI and a plan to redistribute that wealth is unholy and will damn us to hell? What about us facing hell on earth which i would define as a future of violence, upheaval, fear, and destruction (as told by Revelations.) Finally: AGI itself definitionally fits squarely into the creation of a false god as warned by the book of Revelation. The language used by what I would call the 6 or so "horsemen" leading the AGI charge at times refer to AGI in pseudo religious terms. I think it is a fair enough ask to request that you, as Mr. Thiels' friend and business partner ask him to more broadly share his observations with the rest of us. I am not a hater of AGI or Technology, nor a luddite. As a career Navy SEAL i witnessed and lived within and operated across hellscapes...hell on earth. Ungoverned spaces where human life is valued at $0. I know what this place looks, feels, and smells like. It is always and everywhere typified by unengaged people who have no resources and no hope. They feel helpless, scared, and afraid. I don't want that outcome for my children, for America, for the Chinese, for anyone. Peter should deliver his thoughts to more than just a select few, in my opinion. With deep respect and sincerity: Sam Havelock, CEO of SOFX Media.
So because he made the first investment into Facebook we should take his predictions on the end of the world seriously? I think that might be peak ‘im a wealthy founder therefore I know everything’ syndrome
No, because he is the first investor in Facebook, the co-founder of PayPal, Palantir, Founders Fund, Thiel Capital, and Clarium Capital; the creator of the Thiel Fellowship; an early backer of SpaceX, Airbnb, Spotify, Stripe, Lyft and dozens more; the author of the bestseller Zero to One; a Time 100 honoree; a perennial member of the Forbes Midas List and Forbes 400; and one of the most influential technologists, investors, and thinkers of the last two decades.
Those are all business accolades. If Thiel tells me something about the future of technology I’m sure as hell going to listen. Not sure what relevance that has with Christian eschatology.
I agree that Peter Thiel is definitely not a paragon of Christian eschatology, but it is good to see non-Christian thinkers founding their arguments on Christian theology.
It's nice to see an entrepreneur/investor who understands and reads the classics, and Thiel embodies both. For a lot of us, it's been bizarre to watch new trends take shape, aggregate mass out of nowhere, and then overwhelm markets and push discussions at breakneck speed with something closer to a mob or riot-level fever pitch. Should we ever get to the point of a new world order (global governance), it will be because we allowed ourselves to be overwhelmed by fear and took the lazy/autocratic off-ramp (in NT metaphor, we took the mark of the beast).
While it feels like we stepped back from that brink a couple of years ago, I've never been more troubled by how quickly bad ideas spread. Peter is dead over the target citing the Antichrist, and I couldn't agree more with your assessment and citing of Kant: bad ideas are adopted way too quickly without being tested and reshaped by reality.
But is Palantir not one of the most useful tools ever created for consolidating information and power in the hands of very few? Has there ever been a tool more useful for empowering a global governance?
At first glance, yes, but if you look at the purpose of Palantir's creation you will see that it actually prevents a lot more authoritarianism than it enables. It's fundamentally a libertarian enterprise. Look into the history of its founding.
Bravo Joe for sounding an alarm that needs to be sounded. Thiel is clearly a great thinker, although not a theologian as far as I know. And I have no idea of his faith basis. That said, I'll pay attention to what he is saying and compare it with my understanding of scripture. And hopefully gain in wisdom!
Thanks for this writeup. Coverage of Peter's Antichrist talks have, obviously, been skewed against him. You leave me with much to think about, but I wanted to address one point: "It’s unclear to me if our culture is transcending or falling back past the age of the Enlightenment, as he also seems to hint..."
I think this is quite the opposite of what is happening. True, in some limited cases we have allowed pathos to overwhelm the logos as extended by the Enlightenment. However, what has happened more often is that we've extended true science into Scientism. We have no shortage of institutions and elites who believe that empirical authority can substitute for moral authority. We've extended beyond reason into an over-reliance on models at the cost of a moral vision. We are substituting "what is" for "what ought to be" in governance, business, and beyond. Precise measurement and muddied empiricism do not substitute for moral vision.
What is needed is a recovery of virtue, and an insistence that there are ways of living that erode the person. Virtue enables us to reground sciences like economics in human enablement rather than human steering. This provides us with the tools to see the darker forces we're working against with clearer eyes.
I am not sure that there is halfway solution to Daniel. Either he was sent a vision by God or he was hallucinating. Referring to him as wisdom of the ancients doesn't make sense. The implications of him being sent as a prophet of God has greater implications than resisting wokeness.
But the bible and scriptures are poorly written nonsense by men, there is no God or divine presence and therefore Thiel is himself talking nonsense about an antichrist that doesn't exist.
Your piece truly made me stop and read all the way through which is rare nowadays, thank you for that :)
One tension stayed with me: the Antechrist/Katechon frame is read through a vertical and sovereign logic of power (empire, state, global governance). and interestingly, despite the references to Daniel, it feels lightly anchored in the Jewish way of reading power (more diffuse, indirect and even fractured)
From a Grey Zone pov, power operates below sovereignty. Moving through perception and ambiguity rather than being "held by X" and applied.
So where would you locate the Katechon today if power no longer sits at the level of sovereignty?
People recognize the need for guard rails for LLMs. What's even more critically important is guard rails for the mind. Here are two guard rails: propositional logic and conceptual logic.
Propositional logic is given to us by Aristotle. It says that we need to validate our propositions with the facts of reality.
Conceptual logic is given to us by Ayn Rand. It says that we need to validate our *concepts* with the facts of reality. Given that propositions are built from concepts, conceptual logic is more fundamental and important.
Without validated propositions and concepts, what you have is debate on the same epistemological level as people discussing a Harry Potter book while treating it as representative of reality.
Interesting essay. I don't think the book of Daniel is speaking of an antichrist (given that Daniel was Jewish and Jews don't believe in Christ).
Also, the prophecy in Daniel is saying that something will happen, and we cannot do anything about it, but then God will intervene and save the day. Peter Thiel, on the other hand, is warning about problems that humans have agency to prevent.
Finally, if you're Peter's friend, why don't you just ask him if your understanding of his ideas is correct? Right now you're approximating what you think he might mean, as if you have no access to him.
It is a very specific subset of Christianity that takes seriously the idea that the OT prophets are engaged in end times prophecy rather than speaking specifically to the time and place of their situation. The Roman Catholic Church, for example, would consider the idea that the "best commentary on the Book of Revelation is what we Christians call the Old Testament" as bunk. I presume you think the same of the RC Church. Regardless, the view expressed above is the product of a very context specific 19th and 20th century American based, evangelical Christianity. It is not representative of "we Christians", whatever that might even mean.
No idea. don't care. 666 as a cultural phenomenon is symbolically important in Christian life but it is not substantively important in Christian theology. It tends toward magical thinking, like getting worried about what bad luck might happen on Friday 13th.
Will try to revisit Irenaeus as it has been years since I read him, and admittedly to my fault only cursory then, but I am guessing that his understanding of revelation and the end times did not coincide with what he thought would happen 2000 years after he died.
Joe, with all due respect to both you and Peter: Mr. Thiel's reflections on the Antichrist are reflections shared with select by-invite only audiences that have not been exposed to public scrutiny much less divinity scholarship. The functional equivalent of holding mass within a cathedral of invited elites. As far as many of us can tell from the coverage provided by curated version as told by the New York Times and transmissions that have been shared on social media, Mr. Thiel argues that those that seek to constrain the development of AGI and Super Intelligence might be representations of the antichrist. How quaint. This told by the first investor into Facebook the company that birthed the modern era of at-scale social media which can be thought of as phase 1 experimentation with algorithmic driven manipulation of our lived experiences. And look where that got us. Rising suicide rates, polarized society, I could go on. Now let's consider Peter's relationship to Sam Altman. So we are all supposed to believe that asking for guardrails and accountability on AGI that is hurtling towards (with a distinct meaning nonzero possibility) of societal collapse or rogue / non-human control, built and led by the same people who brought us to where we are as a society on the social media business model, that no one elected, aggregating the wealth of nations under a future promise of UBI and a plan to redistribute that wealth is unholy and will damn us to hell? What about us facing hell on earth which i would define as a future of violence, upheaval, fear, and destruction (as told by Revelations.) Finally: AGI itself definitionally fits squarely into the creation of a false god as warned by the book of Revelation. The language used by what I would call the 6 or so "horsemen" leading the AGI charge at times refer to AGI in pseudo religious terms. I think it is a fair enough ask to request that you, as Mr. Thiels' friend and business partner ask him to more broadly share his observations with the rest of us. I am not a hater of AGI or Technology, nor a luddite. As a career Navy SEAL i witnessed and lived within and operated across hellscapes...hell on earth. Ungoverned spaces where human life is valued at $0. I know what this place looks, feels, and smells like. It is always and everywhere typified by unengaged people who have no resources and no hope. They feel helpless, scared, and afraid. I don't want that outcome for my children, for America, for the Chinese, for anyone. Peter should deliver his thoughts to more than just a select few, in my opinion. With deep respect and sincerity: Sam Havelock, CEO of SOFX Media.
Agree wholeheartedly. AGI smells more like a towel of babel moment than the catalyst of the antichrist.
So because he made the first investment into Facebook we should take his predictions on the end of the world seriously? I think that might be peak ‘im a wealthy founder therefore I know everything’ syndrome
No, because he is the first investor in Facebook, the co-founder of PayPal, Palantir, Founders Fund, Thiel Capital, and Clarium Capital; the creator of the Thiel Fellowship; an early backer of SpaceX, Airbnb, Spotify, Stripe, Lyft and dozens more; the author of the bestseller Zero to One; a Time 100 honoree; a perennial member of the Forbes Midas List and Forbes 400; and one of the most influential technologists, investors, and thinkers of the last two decades.
Those are all business accolades. If Thiel tells me something about the future of technology I’m sure as hell going to listen. Not sure what relevance that has with Christian eschatology.
I agree that Peter Thiel is definitely not a paragon of Christian eschatology, but it is good to see non-Christian thinkers founding their arguments on Christian theology.
Perhaps only because you wish it to be so.
Only if it is good theology.
Very true
He also was a student of René Girard at Stanford whose theory of mimesis became a core part of Thiel’s investment theory.
Just because of someone has achieved massive business success does not make them especially correct in their geo-political predictions.
Halo effect and appeal to authority.
Agreed
Even great thinkers have biases. Beware of hero/idol worship.
You are a mindless fanboy.
Thank you :)
It's nice to see an entrepreneur/investor who understands and reads the classics, and Thiel embodies both. For a lot of us, it's been bizarre to watch new trends take shape, aggregate mass out of nowhere, and then overwhelm markets and push discussions at breakneck speed with something closer to a mob or riot-level fever pitch. Should we ever get to the point of a new world order (global governance), it will be because we allowed ourselves to be overwhelmed by fear and took the lazy/autocratic off-ramp (in NT metaphor, we took the mark of the beast).
While it feels like we stepped back from that brink a couple of years ago, I've never been more troubled by how quickly bad ideas spread. Peter is dead over the target citing the Antichrist, and I couldn't agree more with your assessment and citing of Kant: bad ideas are adopted way too quickly without being tested and reshaped by reality.
But is Palantir not one of the most useful tools ever created for consolidating information and power in the hands of very few? Has there ever been a tool more useful for empowering a global governance?
The issue isn't the tool's purpose. It's government incompetence. The tool is broken, which makes it a total ripoff of taxpayer money
Is Palantir similar to Dan Brown´s Digital Fortress?
At first glance, yes, but if you look at the purpose of Palantir's creation you will see that it actually prevents a lot more authoritarianism than it enables. It's fundamentally a libertarian enterprise. Look into the history of its founding.
POSIWID, though
Bravo Joe for sounding an alarm that needs to be sounded. Thiel is clearly a great thinker, although not a theologian as far as I know. And I have no idea of his faith basis. That said, I'll pay attention to what he is saying and compare it with my understanding of scripture. And hopefully gain in wisdom!
Thanks for this writeup. Coverage of Peter's Antichrist talks have, obviously, been skewed against him. You leave me with much to think about, but I wanted to address one point: "It’s unclear to me if our culture is transcending or falling back past the age of the Enlightenment, as he also seems to hint..."
I think this is quite the opposite of what is happening. True, in some limited cases we have allowed pathos to overwhelm the logos as extended by the Enlightenment. However, what has happened more often is that we've extended true science into Scientism. We have no shortage of institutions and elites who believe that empirical authority can substitute for moral authority. We've extended beyond reason into an over-reliance on models at the cost of a moral vision. We are substituting "what is" for "what ought to be" in governance, business, and beyond. Precise measurement and muddied empiricism do not substitute for moral vision.
What is needed is a recovery of virtue, and an insistence that there are ways of living that erode the person. Virtue enables us to reground sciences like economics in human enablement rather than human steering. This provides us with the tools to see the darker forces we're working against with clearer eyes.
Virtue and integrity
Lmao
I am not sure that there is halfway solution to Daniel. Either he was sent a vision by God or he was hallucinating. Referring to him as wisdom of the ancients doesn't make sense. The implications of him being sent as a prophet of God has greater implications than resisting wokeness.
Daniel was on drugs so that caused his hallucinations.
But the bible and scriptures are poorly written nonsense by men, there is no God or divine presence and therefore Thiel is himself talking nonsense about an antichrist that doesn't exist.
It is all made up piffle.
"there is no God or divine presence"- and you know this, how?
He made it up.
Science has proven a great deal, but not how or why the Big Bang occurred, so a certain amount of faith is also required.
There is an ALL rather than a divine being. ALL is unity so there is no divine or anti-divine, as it all becomes one and duality is nullified.
what does that even mean? please define ALL?
ALL means everything. Everything in existence is God all at once. Existence itself is God. The ALL.
thanks. now show me proof not faith but proof.
Your piece truly made me stop and read all the way through which is rare nowadays, thank you for that :)
One tension stayed with me: the Antechrist/Katechon frame is read through a vertical and sovereign logic of power (empire, state, global governance). and interestingly, despite the references to Daniel, it feels lightly anchored in the Jewish way of reading power (more diffuse, indirect and even fractured)
From a Grey Zone pov, power operates below sovereignty. Moving through perception and ambiguity rather than being "held by X" and applied.
So where would you locate the Katechon today if power no longer sits at the level of sovereignty?
Thanks again for the reading.
People recognize the need for guard rails for LLMs. What's even more critically important is guard rails for the mind. Here are two guard rails: propositional logic and conceptual logic.
Propositional logic is given to us by Aristotle. It says that we need to validate our propositions with the facts of reality.
Conceptual logic is given to us by Ayn Rand. It says that we need to validate our *concepts* with the facts of reality. Given that propositions are built from concepts, conceptual logic is more fundamental and important.
Without validated propositions and concepts, what you have is debate on the same epistemological level as people discussing a Harry Potter book while treating it as representative of reality.
Great summary of biblical writings and Peter's talks on the antichrist. Fascinating subject and writeup. Thanks for the knowledge Joe!
The problem with Kant: “the eye sees only colors; the mind sees things”…but that includes eyes, and therefore also colors.
Kant's Categorical Imperative is what's important.
Where does one begin to address this nonsense… best demonstration of how these people ARE the problem
Step one to avoid the rise of the Anti-Christ: don't give them large sums of money.
Interesting essay. I don't think the book of Daniel is speaking of an antichrist (given that Daniel was Jewish and Jews don't believe in Christ).
Also, the prophecy in Daniel is saying that something will happen, and we cannot do anything about it, but then God will intervene and save the day. Peter Thiel, on the other hand, is warning about problems that humans have agency to prevent.
Finally, if you're Peter's friend, why don't you just ask him if your understanding of his ideas is correct? Right now you're approximating what you think he might mean, as if you have no access to him.
The best commentary on the Book of Revelation is what we Christians call the Old Testament. Especially Genesis and the Prophets.
A good cross-reference Bible will get you farther than many commentaries. And Daniel features prominently.
It is a very specific subset of Christianity that takes seriously the idea that the OT prophets are engaged in end times prophecy rather than speaking specifically to the time and place of their situation. The Roman Catholic Church, for example, would consider the idea that the "best commentary on the Book of Revelation is what we Christians call the Old Testament" as bunk. I presume you think the same of the RC Church. Regardless, the view expressed above is the product of a very context specific 19th and 20th century American based, evangelical Christianity. It is not representative of "we Christians", whatever that might even mean.
We call it the unicity of the Bible. It is not particular to any branch of our tragically divided Church.
We call it bad Biblical studies. Although I do agree about the tragedy of our divided Church.
Pop quiz: Where else does 666 show up in the Bible?
No idea. don't care. 666 as a cultural phenomenon is symbolically important in Christian life but it is not substantively important in Christian theology. It tends toward magical thinking, like getting worried about what bad luck might happen on Friday 13th.
YOU may call it that. Irenaeus thought that Nebuchadnezzar's statue anticipated the mark of the beast in Revelation.
Will try to revisit Irenaeus as it has been years since I read him, and admittedly to my fault only cursory then, but I am guessing that his understanding of revelation and the end times did not coincide with what he thought would happen 2000 years after he died.